Audio description [AD]: Program intro 7 TV Rota, directed by Paco Campaña.

(Music)

PACO CAMPAÑA - P.C.:— ‘Quererla es crearla’ is part of an entity that has been set in motion to fight for a world of equals. If life is already very complicated for everyone, imagine when we talk, for example, about situations of disability, functional diversity, and the educational collective or environment. We are going to talk about all of that in the next few minutes. Surely, there will be families watching us now who are not directly affected, but we never know what situation we might find ourselves in. In any case, it must be an issue for us all to look at, because creating an equal world is a matter for everyone. We must all contribute our grain of sand.

Mercedes Bernal, representative of the ‘Quererla es Crearla’ platform, welcome back.

MERCEDES BERNAL - M.B.:— Thank you so much for the opportunity to raise a little awareness. 

P.C.:— It is extremely important that we talk about life because it is complicated. Tomorrow we will talk about housing, just imagine. Life is very complicated, but there are situations that are even more complicated. If it is difficult for someone who has not faced a specific issue, imagine when we talk about situations where we start from a certain vulnerability due to physical, mental, or any other reasons. It is worth us all pitching in.

M.B.:— Exactly. The 'Quererla es crearla' platform is here to drive a social movement to respond to that great challenge that we as a society and as humanity face today: inclusive education. We are a movement made up of families, students, and professionals who share a common goal: that schools do not leave anyone out due to any characteristic of gender or ability. That everyone is allowed to access learning and, above all, to coexistence and real participation.

P.C.:— The name ‘Quererla es Crearla’, what is it?

M.B.:— The word is very significant because we must have the conviction that we need to transform it, and to transform it we need to want to. Hence, to want it is to create it. If we want it, we will create it. 

P.C.:— If we want to, we can. 

M.B.:— That's it.

P.C.:— In short, it is a recently created entity. Is it local or does it have a regional scope? 

M.B.:— It is national, but people are joining from Latin America and other parts of the world. It is a global movement. It is made up of a great many people. 

P.C.:— In Rota, it continues to take its first steps. 

M.B.:— Yes. In Rota, we had the opportunity to make a documentary, the documentary screening. Let me tell you a little bit about the beginning. The platform originated from a meeting that took place in Malaga in 2018, during a workshop. This workshop was based on a research project conducted by the University of Malaga. Families, students, and professionals from all over Spain gathered there. The goal was to analyze the current situation of schools and make a diagnosis. From there, a mechanism was set in motion, and support networks were created. In 2020, online meetings continued to be held because we were in the middle of the pandemic. In 2022, another workshop was held in Madrid. We met again there, and working groups were created. There is a group of guidance counselors, creators of a very interesting and necessary guide, who present another alternative for the work of guidance in schools. 

It is the primary starting point for segregation. There are others from families on how to dissent and seek support from the rest of society. And there is another guide, which I believe is the most relevant, that students have created for other students. It is curious because, normally, when we think about the teaching-learning process, it is not always stated what a school where children are the protagonists should be like. Decisions are always made on their behalf, and above all, on behalf of those children in more vulnerable situations, who have historically always been silenced. Now, for the first time, they are finding their voice, because they are attending conferences, they are present at congresses, forums, and wherever education is discussed. Obviously, we must count on the protagonists, who are the students themselves, and who better than them to bear witness to their experiences, to how they have lived through the situation at school, and to the harm that the school has caused them. They have the tools for us to learn what it is that we need to change. That is why they are the protagonists of the documentary that was presented here, in Rota. We did not have a screening, but the premiere was in Madrid in 2022. 

It premiered there alongside the Minister of Education, Pilar Alegría. The documentary stems from the story of Rubén Calleja, a child with Down syndrome who was expelled from mainstream school. It recounts the titanic struggle of Alejandro and his entire family to fight and prove in court that their son's right to inclusive education was being violated. It also tells the stories of other students and their families. The documentary is very interesting. Here, in Rota, it was organized by the city council. The important thing about this documentary is that it is not just a viewing of testimonies, which is good because it makes us question situations and preconceptions that we do not realize we support, thereby segregating.

But it also helps us to reflect together on what we can do to transform the current reality of schools. 

P.C.:— What are the barriers that a child with a disability faces? What are the problems, and what can we do to make that inclusion more real? You mentioned that this has reached the courts. The law must have limits within which it operates. What are the main problems encountered?

M.B.:— It is interesting that we talk a little about that legal framework, as you say, because the problem is that the law is not being made effective. If we talk about inclusive education, we must take into account that it is a fundamental right enshrined in the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child. Often, it seems that we talk about inclusion as if it were a trend; it is used for everything. It is true that the use of the word 'inclusion' has been somewhat distorted; its content has been emptied.

That is why it is interesting to see that this has been a global and worldwide concern for many years. One of the most relevant frameworks for action was the Salamanca Statement; I am talking about 1994. It already spoke of inclusion. Hundreds of countries and international organizations stood up to examine what schools really need. What change is needed so that it is for everyone, without any exception? Other international bodies focused on specific groups. In this case, for example, we have the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. It mandates that all countries comply with this inclusive education. It obliges them to provide all the necessary adjustments and supports to make it effective. Spain ratified it in 2008. This is very important because, in terms of human rights, the Constitution itself states that everything ratified in Spain directly becomes part of our legal system. Therefore, we are talking about the fact that inclusion is not something optional or subject to debate or opinion. It is mandatory. 

P.C.:— Mercedes, you mentioned earlier, for example, Down syndrome. Does a little boy or girl with Down syndrome have to go to a special school or a mainstream school with children who do not have Down syndrome? What does that legal framework say? 

M.B.:— The legal framework clearly states that everyone, without exception, must be together. The State must provide all the resources and conditions to make that possible. We must start from a very important idea: we are all equal in rights, but also in dignity and in allowing each person to be who they are. This is one of the things that is not being developed in schools, where there is discrimination and segregation based on different characteristics, as you say. Evidently, this is because a medical model exists in schools, when they should be spaces for learning and coexistence. We have a vision that focuses on the child, a therapeutic approach with the goal of fixing them. It is thought that learning difficulties will be alleviated by labeling the child with special educational needs. 

P.C.:— In fact, there are special schools sponsored by the Administration and the Regional Government of Andalusia with their full blessing. I know some of them. Is that by choice or by obligation? 

M.B.:— There has been a lot of debate and deception surrounding that idea. It has been thought that families must be able to choose. Of course, if you make me choose a school where there are no resources and where, in reality, they are not going to provide my child with what they need to access learning, I will obviously take the option that ensures they will be cared for. But the child's rights are not being respected. A family's free choice cannot be above the child's right to be present, participate, and grow alongside everyone else. It cannot be above their right to coexistence. 

P.C.:— I have no doubt. Put yourself in the following situation: there is a little boy with Down syndrome who goes to a class where the teacher has to be prepared in a way that, I understand, is a bit special to be able to attend to the child with special needs. Later I will also ask you about his classmates, who I am sure, as children, will take it more naturally, if that is even possible. There will be more responsibility on the teacher regarding their work of learning and personal enrichment. After all, we are talking about educating. But I put myself in the teacher's shoes, who has to educate 23 children without Down syndrome and this boy who, as you rightly say, deserves an inclusive space. For the teacher, it won't be easy, will it? 

M.B.:— Of course, it is not easy. It is not just a matter of 'come on, let's provide resources and that's it.' Inclusion is not automatic; it is not enough to simply implement measures or resources. We also need a transformation—of our perspective, of our prejudices, and of what we have always understood by relating to persons with disabilities. Of course, training is necessary, but so is the will and that sense of humanity, as I said before, to respect their dignity. It is not about trying to make everyone fit into the same path, because that does not provide equal opportunities for all children. 

P.C.:— Where are we now? We have gone from those 'sickly' children being hidden in their homes to a very different scenario, you know that better than I do. Have we achieved a world that is much closer and belongs to everyone, where we do not look at a child in a strange way? Are we gradually becoming more human in this blessed society? At what point do you consider, as someone who experiences it on the ground, that we find ourselves? 

M.B.:— As I say, the laws are the problem. It is what we always encounter. Regarding those social barriers, as you were saying, there is a lack of training. Unfortunately, we continue to see headlines in the news about the 'typical' mother who needs resources and has to go begging every year. We must keep in mind, as the researcher and pedagogue Francesco Tonucci says, that when we think about an inclusive school, it seems we are thinking of a generous school, in the sense that it will depend on good will and the favors granted to a child. And nothing could be further from the truth. As we have made clear, relying on a legal context, we are talking about rights. And the child's right is to be there. But it is not as you say: «progress has been made, because the law exists and the children are participating». Right now, what is happening is integration, which is not the same as inclusion. They must not be confused.

What we need is not for the child to simply be present or participate in some collective activities. It is about the child truly feeling involved and engaged, being part of what happens in the classroom, in the day-to-day, and being taken into account. And for this, the only way is to reinforce the child's own identity. That the person, the resources, and how we do things are valued. It is something we have to consider ourselves, as I said before. The medical model focuses on the child, considering that they need to be repaired. All specific programs and resources are applied to the child in an individual way, when things fail because, evidently, we insist on adapting the child. We insist that they must enter through the same path that everyone else enters. And that is when it 'fails'.

There are limitations. In reality, we are not focusing on the environment, the context, the barriers, the methodological strategy, or the resources. We often talk about a "lack of resources," but perhaps we are using resources poorly and they are not efficient. We cannot always hide behind the excuse that there is no inclusion due to a lack of resources, because, as I said before, inclusion is a global transformative process. It is not based solely on resources, but on many things we can act upon. We can generate that transformation. 

P.C.:— To have active participation. 

M.B.:— That's it.

P.C.:— And in Rota, how are we doing? Because in Rota there are four or six schools, and there must be a number of children who have that need because they are in a special situation. How are we doing in Rota? Are we responding or not?  

P.C.:— I believe that throughout Spain there are schools where there is suffering. The moment a child suffers in a classroom, we are already doing it wrong. It is something that I think should concern us because, we insist again, there are not many involved professionals who want change and transformation. But, often, they also find themselves tied by the Administration itself, which sends contradictory messages. On one hand, inclusion as a principle, when it is actually not a principle, but a right that must be fulfilled. Above all, we need more support and awareness that, as you said at the beginning, this is not about the struggle of a specific group; it is something that must concern us as a society. The situation of disability can come to your door at any moment or not, but we have to fight to ensure that certain needs are covered. 

We need to change society's perspective. Not to perceive people in a way that equates differences with inferiority. Something that unfortunately happens. Thinking this way, the responses provided will always be segregating and discriminatory. That is not what we intend. We are fighting for the inclusive school. If we manage to make that space inclusive, we will ensure that, in all areas, society has a space for the inclusion and real participation of everyone. Without there being groups of people forced to do things separately that we can all do together. We can all enrich ourselves together.

Anyway. There is a lot of work to do. Above all, regarding awareness, because we have inherited the social barrier of an ableist culture. Just as we all fight together to eradicate sexism, women and men hand in hand, because women have been discriminated against for so many years, the same happens with ableism. The inclusion process takes many years. You asked: "How is Rota going?" Well, very slowly, the lives of many children are left by the wayside. Many families have to find themselves in court and wasting a lot of time, as happened to Alejandro Calleja. It is true that, in the end, the UN and the Spanish Justice system have proven him right, but there is economic, emotional, and, above all, as Alejandro says, time-related exhaustion. "All the time my son has lost, who will give it back to him?" That is the harsh reality. 

P.C.:— How many people in Rota are part of ‘Quererla es crearla’? How many volunteers are there already?

M.B.:— Right now, I am the only active member, although there are people who, evidently, share that philosophy and provide support. We are working on it.

P.C.:— Making it visible and doing what is possible. That is the intention and, as we were saying before, not just because it might affect us one day. For example, we shouldn't talk about cancer only because it affects us or has affected our family, but because as a concept of society, we should be like that. 

Mercedes, thank you so much. Good luck. You have a window here to explain yourselves whenever you deem it appropriate. 

M.B.:— One more thing. Next week we have a two-day workshop in Barcelona. It will be very intense. It won't just be a conference where specialists give guidelines, talk about education or inclusion. It will be a collaborative effort where teams will be created to work and take what is generated back to our regions and places to start raising awareness and making things visible. Let's get our act together; we must act and provoke change.

P.C.:— Perfect, if you like, let's have a video call next week. We'll put it in our calendars and you can tell us all about it. Thank you so much and good luck. 

M.B.:— Thank you so much.