Network of schools for inclusion and equity

Well, then, welcome, welcome to all and to all today we have a session

that we want to be a little quieter, that doesn't have so much, so much, well, it will have

content because it will be the content that we can bring from the different places of

the schools in the network, so, well, we have prepared an agenda with

three points that Mariana has prepared very well, who is the, the systematic part of all this, of

this team, Mariana is always, well, facilitating all that

work of organizing ourselves, getting started, and, and I don't know,

a disaster sometimes we are, well, that agenda has three points, the first

punto que del que yo me voy a hacer cargo de facilitar es el el que Trata de

no sé si todos y todas estáis Al Día de que hace unas semanas estuvimos en en un

workshop de de la red pero no solo de la red de quererlas crearlas y en ese workshop

pues estuvo parte de la red Estuvo trabajando Entonces ese va a ser el

primer orden del día vamos a tratar de hablar un poquito sobre este tema el segundo punto del orden del día

es el Vamos a abordar el diagnóstico que era la tarea que traíamos para hoy el

diagnóstico de de los centros pero en este caso e lo que vamos a hacer ya lo planteará

después Tere que es quien va a organizar ese ese espacio lo que vamos a hacer es

to count on the work that you have been developing in the schools some

schools have designed some schools have indeed managed to design

the activity they have managed to implement it Well we will address a little bit how that experience has gone How

has that experience been and what we hope above all is that you tell us

and the third point on the agenda which Mariana will lead which she

facilitates Mariana is about the next step which is a next

step that is much simpler than the last one we had proposed which is the the constitution of

a steering group Well we will address that later but if you agree then let's go

a comenzar con ese primer punto que es la experiencia en el workshop cataliza Bueno yo quiero poner un poquito Al Día

de de qué era aquel encuentro ese encuentro fueron dos días

de trabajo presencial y también online pero presencial en en Barcelona en la

sede de la [Música] fundación lo

diré la fundación bofil bofil eso Gracias de la fundación bfil que nos

dejaron el espacio bueno fueron dos sesiones que dedicamos la primera un

viernes la dedicamos entera a pensar sobre la red de escuelas eh o partir

Mejor dicho de la red de escuelas y ahí pues estuvieron diferentes personas de de esta red tanto por la mañana aquí en

Spain and of the national network, that is, of the centers that are from here in Spain

and in the afternoon we were in relation to the schools that are part of the network

that are on the other side of the ocean, and the second day we dedicated to

the social movement, uh, that creates it in the morning also to the social movement here

in Spain, and in the afternoon in Spain, which is morning in Latin America, we dedicated it to

the work of a social movement beyond Spanish borders

So the first day was dedicated to the network of schools

and I think both days were two particularly valuable days

was a great effort of systematization of organization of systematization, of course we made a thousand

mistakes for which we apologize both to those who were there in person and to those who were

particularly to those who were online because there is always a mistake when you are there, it is not so problematic because

Well, if for example there is a delay, then there is no problem because we are seeing the people who are delaying

activity, well, there is no problem, but whoever was online did notice that there was a delay and then the

next session, when would it be, well, so we apologize to those of you who were online because we know that

there were mistakes that, well, were not as desirable as they could have been, but there were also

brilliant things, I think there were brilliant debates, there were brilliant proposals

also brilliant and what we were proposing when we thought

Mariana Tere and I, when we were going to organize this session, it was good that we had already

a long time talking, us sharing proposals to implement in the

first days to organize a bit how to proceed with the network, and now what we were thinking is that it was a good

time to give back, so that you all could speak and share a bit about what

the workshop has meant in this case for those who were there and

tell those who couldn't be there what happened there, what it meant, in short, a bit

to bring us up to date. So, nothing, the floor is yours. I don't know who would like to start.

eh to start give the go-ahead come on Who is

encouraged the first one is the hardest eh come on here a brave one come on

Ana Good afternoon everyone first of all e it was two intense days intense

really eh But well we learned a lot we worked a lot we listened a lot

we passed some minutes like that we did everything eh honestly congratulations to the

organization because it was an impressive job and as a little summary that I take away eh

from from those intense hours eh first I could say eh that there eh

we were people related to functional diversity in one way or another no or family members of children and

chicas con diversidad funcional o chicos y chicos chicos y chicas excluidos por

el sistema por por esta razón entre otras eh profesionales también pero

relacionados con también no con la con la diversidad funcional pues eh

orientación PT al se echo de menos madres de eh todo tipo de niños y niñas

eh profesorado de todo tipo de materias Y es que bueno pues se sigue asociando

la inclusión a a desde desde esa perspectiva que nos determina la

administración no unos son normotos y otros diversos y diversas no los que

categorizamos etiquetamos diagnosticamos dictaminando eh contra y digo contra a

purpose, not against them, is what the topic seems to be about, and of course, this opens up and

and all of us become aware that this concerns everyone. Because

we need a more just society, or it will be very difficult to move forward, right?

That, that was one of the, well, one of the arguments that was valued there.

And then, well, many others, like, like listening to the

mothers. It always, well, gives me goosebumps, especially because of what

it concerns me as a counselor, and with all that they say, with all those experiences that are tremendous, and

that, well, I certainly hope not to contribute to that, to that harm.

ese dolor pero sé que lo he hecho desde el 98 he hecho cosas muy mal y Y bueno

pues eh creo que tenemos que que hacer autocrítica No e hablaron mucho y muy

bien y contaron cosas como Bueno pues Paula decía que parece que que todo depende de los

recursos pero que cuando se organizan campañas para para seguir dotando los

centros o o dotar eh de esos recursos que parece que faltan no es suficiente porque el tema no son los recursos no es

la cantidad de recursos sino Cómo se utilizan para excluir al alumnado no como excusa barata para excluir al

alumnado de eso también se habló también se habló del capacitismo dentro del capacitismo y como Eh muchas voces no

estaban ahí no había voces que que seguíamos sin incluir Y bueno pues se

also made a proposal for improvement for other meetings and and other

Uh well other alternative and augmentative communication systems that that

could also be present Although well there were interpreters uh communication mediators and it was

great too in that sense uh listening to the group of students

for inclusion also always gives us goosebumps uh we end up

crying with a lump in our throat Nacho even cried Hey

I'm I'm easily moved No believe me Uh well well I yes yes there we were

all uh very very emotional because of course they tell terrible stories and

but it is also true that we know that all of them are true, no, no, we certainly don't think they are going to lie, but

But we know that those narratives are like that and and of course, uh

in the end, we all contribute to this unjust system, no, and and well, uh, it is

it is important to reflect on it, the fact that the

kids had achieved many more things than adults and how we should learn from them and and one of the, uh,

well, one of the examples we could take is that they

they undertake an individual and collective struggle at the same time, no, at the same time and and and simultaneously, always when they represent

the platform individually, they are always thinking about their collective and and well, they also say it in the first person

person and that makes it much more valuable not for mobilization it is important that their voices are heard

and something that that Luz not for I don't know if this Luz not I haven't seen it but I haven't

seen it I don't think so but something that Luz kept saying is the voice of the students the students already have a voice the

students come with a voice we just have to give them the tools and the spaces and the times for

for them to be heard No but they already of course come standard like all of them with a voice I'm I'm

finishing up now uh uh well and then something that that I also really liked is the

topic of how they can how the access route for families in an

organized way no because it was said individually the system excludes them

families we have to enter as a collective We will have to enter as a family association not as AMPAS

as as AFAS in order to modify from within and to be able to as I said

at the beginning, to address ourselves to all of us, not to all of us as mothers of

any child, any girl, and finally, I also keep with

vision of the colleagues from the alter-evaluation group, some of whom are here, how they have given a

wonderful and brilliant turn to the issue of psycho-pedagogical evaluation

implementing participatory action research processes applied to psycho-pedagogical evaluation, I think

an impressive twist and well, from there, I certainly have

Claro que que ese es el camino no yo esto es un poco sería un poco mi mi

resumen Aunque podría hablar de muchísimas más cosas pero creo que estos serían los puntos más importantes para

mí Bueno pues genial Ana Mil gracias por por todo el reporte que nos acabas de

hacer que nos ha hecho un recorrido ahí por por todo aquel encuentro yo solo

añadiría lo que tú ibas comentando que a lo mejor aquí en este grupo Hay personas

que no saben qué es quererlas crearla o no saben qu es e

estudiantes por la inclusión o no saben qué es el grupo de madres bueno quererlas crearla nace igual que igual

que esta red nace de un proyecto de investigación eh que iniciamos en la

universidad de Málaga y que ese proyecto de investigación lo que quería era recoger las narrativas de la gente es

decir lo que pensaba la gente sobre educación inclusiva lo que pensaba la gente inicialmente sobre eh eso que se

ha llamado discapacidad eh sobre la diversidad en la escuela etcétera y eh A

partir de esa de esa primera de ese inicio de investigación Eh pues va

surgiendo algo que toma vida porque es la gente la que comienza a hacerse la la

dueña de esa investigación entonces Eh pues van surgiendo grupos de trabajo eh

un grupo de familias un grupo de estudiantes ese grupo de estudiantes lo que Ana ha llamado estudiantes por la

inclusión un grupo de pequeñito de estudiantes que se ponen a reflexionar sobre su experiencia y a partir de ahí

they create a tool that is a guide, uh, a school. Here are representatives

from that school, CEIP La Parra from Almachar, which begins its proposal for

work through participatory action research and creates a guide. And that guide is the seed of this

network that we are now enjoying, or a group of mothers called radical misfits because they

found that they were always told they were too radical and that they were misfits, and so they

not only did they not deny it, but they said, 'Well, then, we'll stick with this, with this name,' and

they also made their proposals. That is to say, the initial research project is becoming what the people themselves

families, students, professionals, etc., are building.

en una suerte de ciencia ciudadana esto Solo por aclarar un poquito por por

ubicar algunas de las cosas que ha mencionado Ana bueno muchas gracias Ana quién más quién continúa contando algo

del workshop lo que significó lo que

aprendió venga Quién se anima venga

Vicky Hola se oye bien Sí vale pues nada

que que lo que plantea Ana ya es muy completo pero para mí pues la

participación en el workshop fue encontrarme para lo que para mí ahora

mismo es pues la gente más avanzada en investigación en España vale en

research related to education in the sense that at this

moment there are families, some families who were present and some students

who were present who from my point of view have approaches to

how to improve the educational system, how to improve the school, which for me are

well, cutting-edge, and it was super interesting to share again with

them, to meet all the people together. There was a, a, a

assembly that was brutal, in which people, I suppose the video will be somewhere,

it's all being edited, we are editing all the encounters, there

the video is available and the minutes are available, the minutes are indeed published, the videos

not yet, no, in reality they are done but we are still finishing

editing them, well, well, that's what happened, there was an

assembly where people presented what they were doing and so on, and of course,

that put us in the dimension of what we were doing, okay, in the dimension of the quantity of because Nacho

has made a brief, I don't know, like a summary of what Quererla es crearla is and

Estudiantes por la Inclusión and La Parra and so on, but of course, there, there was really an

expression, I don't know, express, but listen

mí me dijeron que eso era una locura Que cómo se me ocurría hacer eso en una hora creo que fue

es que hubo no recuerdo Cuántas intervenciones hubo pero fueron aproximadamente no sé si 40 una cosa así

40 intervenciones una detrás de otra sí sí sí sí Y entonces ahí se iba viendo la dimensión de de la cantidad de

gente que había allí que que estaba que estaba peleando por esto y en la

cantidad de de proyectos que que se estaba No eso junto con todo lo que se

estuvo explicando de que se está haciendo Al otro lado del Charco que le llamamos nosotros de lo que se está

haciendo en en América Pues claro le le dio una dimensión a a a esto en lo que

estamos que que fue impresionante para mí también fue fue bueno porque digo los

most important people for me in research and on one hand there are the

families some families some students and then of course there are also

Well, people from the University of Vic who were there, people from I know online

there was Gerardo Citia, I know, I don't know, from the most cutting-edge people

there are in research in this, well, in this educational topic in Spain right now, they were in that

workshop, and for me it was, well, for me, I think that these people, what happens to us,

people who have been working on this for a long time and who have often felt like saying, ugh,

this seems like something that is difficult to move, right? My impression was that it is difficult to move. In the

sense that many times I don't know if it's happened to you, you find yourself working in a school, trying to move forward, and you see that

you're not moving forward, and you keep going and going, and you see that things are stalled, and for

me, this workshop was like a source of energy and

joy, and I think not just for me, but for many of these people

it was also a way of saying, well, we can move forward on this path we're on.

One of the things that was said is that we couldn't go so slowly. I don't

remember the exact phrase, but it was... I don't remember. Yes, well, Carmen said

something like, we know this is a process and that

social changes are slow but not but but not so much but not so much no and I

I know that in the eyes of some researchers who were there, uh, there were

sparks, sparks in the sense that they thought, wow, this thing we're doing of listening to the community

listening to each other, participating and being, uh, and and having active participation

this seems to be the way, and this way seems like it will be able to, uh, be a path to move forward

so well, uh, well, that's it, to say that I believe that

that spark that this workshop left us with, well, for me it's super hopeful, and I hope that in my

center we can, we can move forward with this. My center is there, it was also a

meeting with other schools that are part of the school network and that for me was a joy and a boost of energy

Great Thank you Vicky Well more ideas come on more people who were there

there and who convey to us what happened

happened Rafaela Well you've already turned on the microphone you can't back out now Oh

I didn't realize it's just that with what Ana and Vicky have already said there's really very little I can say the truth is that uh

the first part was well that a bombardment of everyone wanting to speak or wanting to speak families students and

professionals and the truth is that it gave you goosebumps really from so many uh well injustices and so many situations

well pitiful But then we moved forward and saw that yes that that

están haciendo cosas vale Pero siempre desde el punto de vista de de que tenamos que tener en cuenta y se hizo

mucho hincapié el derecho fundamental a la educación inclusiva que siempre tenemos que tener por delante vale Y con

una educación inclusiva y y de calidad eh Por eso muchas veces el tema como ha

dicho bien Ana de los recursos no es tan necesario sino es más bien la organización del centro El querer es

poder Vale y Y eso implica pues pues si el centro quiere moverse en esa línea No

necesitamos más recursos hay que generarlos y lo que sí que resonó un poquito era lo de la maestra sombra eh

eso de ahí que muchas veces pensamos que Cuanto más recursos era el lado contradictorio de la maestra sombra ahí

que muchas veces perjudica si no se genera bien esa ese recurso vale Y luego

well also add the legal part because our law seems to be a law that that does allow us, okay, with

the issue of of inclusion, the issue of parking, the issue of the ACIs on the other

hand, and the issue of inspection, which often seems like we don't have the support

support from from inspection a bit in that accompaniment so that the law would be smoother and we wouldn't have so much, well, the

bureaucracy of the ACIs that should disappear and that problem is there

that we have, okay? I don't know very well. Thank you very much, Rafaela. They are asking

over here, Maria, if you can explain what the shadow teacher is. Okay, well,

the shadow teacher in this case is usually that teacher, the PT or or the or the

El ayudante el cómo se llama auxiliar técnico que está con este alumnado tea

vale que que lo acompaña lo lleva y está a su lado continuamente en toda el día

en la jornada escolar Vale entonces es un recurso que en algunos momentos sí que es necesario pero no tenerlo eh de

una manera sentado a tu lado sino que debería de estar visible en algún espacio de la clase pero que se viera

que es la inclusión como bien hemos dicho para todos no para un niño solo hace algún tiempo eh mantuve yo una

conversación sobre esto que está por ahí grabada si si queréis la voy a compartir yo en mis redes sociales por si alguien

le interesa profundizar un poquito en las contradicciones que tiene esta figura a pesar de que ha sido tan

extendida internacionalmente en América Latina está también muy de moda tan de

moda como aquí y Según lo entiendo ha sido un coladero

un coladero de de cualquier cosa menos de inclusión en la mayoría de los casos

Bueno más ideas Muchas gracias Rafaela más ideas que que queráis destacar de del encuentro en

Barcelona venga Quién se anima eh

Marta venga yo me oís bien Sí más que

que ideas voy a hablar de sensaciones emociones Para mí fue muy emocionante me

sumo a lo que han dicho eh las compañeras hasta ahora yo destacaría al menos lo que yo me llevo del workshop de

Barcelona es el el establecer vínculos y afianzar esas redes no personales el

poder desvirtualizar a la gente que hemos conocido la mayoría nos hemos conocido a través de las redes el poder

afianzar esa relación más personal conocer mejor a esas personas a las que seguimos y con las que compartimos ideas

y pensamientos poder compartir esos momentos no los tiempos de descanso que

en donde nos íbamos a reponer fuerzas Pues creo que han sido también decisivos y creo que esta parte también es muy

importante en el workshop creo que es algo que hay que Resaltar yo al menos es lo que lo que me llevo y y que y que es

muy importante los encuentros presenciales no porque Bueno pues a veces sí que es verdad que es complejo es difícil todos aquellos que estáis al

otro lado de del del del océano es más complejo en América pero sí que es importante para para estrechar no eh

esos vínculos para sentir realmente que hay una red de personas trabajando por lo mismo con un objetivo común que te

helps those people know the lives of those people what you share with them that enriches so much

also your point of view your way of seeing things those experiences you share and I I keep that and I

would like to highlight it very well thank you very much Marta I also have been learning

as we advanced in the movement the importance of each of the encounters, that is, the

meeting people, giving them a hug, sharing a relaxed conversation time that is not

always, even though we left very little time for enjoyment there, it was all

hammer, go, come on Ana, in our free moments we gave them time to see what

they did until well, come on, more ideas

more more experiences in the workshop So that we leave with some clear ideas

of what it was for, let's see, I see quite a few people here who were

there, so come on

cheer up, come on Eli, hello, good morning, my name is Elia

Nava from Mexico, I coordinate an inclusion space, a team of 10 teachers in a

private school, and for us, we were able to meet a little on Friday

morning because you can imagine, there are still many activities that had to be

planned, and being so far away, our perception of the meeting

It was quite a surprise to see the students, and what we were discussing was that

[Música]

it means a lot to see our students with that public voice, with that political voice. We have

students from preschool to high school. We guide the high school students more towards this approach,

but we thought that perhaps something that questioned us

[Música] finished listening, so for

us, the truth is, what we liked the most was hearing the students, both male and female, and the families, and

of course, we share many concerns with the teachers, both male and female, and perhaps also the

urgency that the formal education system always has very strong administrative hurdles. How to be able to

making all of this harmonize, well, that's the challenge. The desire, I believe, is there, and the

enthusiasm that Dr. Nacho always projects. Many of you, whom we're beginning to recognize, are

inspirational for us. In broad terms, that's what

we were able to share. Well, thank you very much, Eli. I love what you say.

Honestly, as Ana said earlier, I got emotional listening to the

students. And I think the moments that moved me the most weren't the moments

of sadness when they shared something, some difficult experience they had lived through, which has moved me

many times before. But on this occasion, I think what moved me was the progress they had made in everything

in that time in a way that they had managed to interpret beyond what, for example, school teaches them and how

they had learned to learn from others and what you propose, I think it is

something not only relevant but necessary to establish bridges between what

some students do and others, what some teachers do and others, and find spaces where we can

intertwine our own narratives and I also really liked this idea

that you propose of getting them to have a public voice because the voice of Anton, of the boys and girls who

participated in the sessions are no longer just private voices

they are not just them, he always spoke in collective terms and in personal terms, of course, in terms

personally, but they are also speaking as a collective, as in

in the second person, in the first person plural, we are a 'we'. So creating that dimension

that is, creating an identity among us is fundamental. Well, thank you very much

Eli, any other ideas? We have a few minutes left, not many,

to continue with this. What do we take away from all

that? What can be useful to us from everything we've been working on

there, during those two intense days of work, because it was work. I loved seeing

so many people who are citizens, because we are the ones who are here, we are the ones who

majority professionals but there were H students and families who are not

professionals and who were researching or rather were researching and and they were there for two full days

doing in-depth research what is happening and how we can change it Well what what idea did we get come on

someone raise your hand Rosa come on I I the the main thing

I took away from the meeting was that many people are doing uh many small people are doing many things uh

to change them to change the situations and sorry to change the

dynamics that are happening in the centers to lead to change the dynamics of society and that really

this is a meeting point for for all those initiatives and all those

proposals and also a bit the the lever to to be able to start no

And the truth is that it was very good and when that why did you like it so much

let's see Rosa well I liked it because because

experiences similar to mine, similar to ours were seen in other places

throughout well that, throughout Spain and other parts of other parts of other countries. So we are all a bit in

the same the same boat, right? And with respect to other countries and

other cultures, we are a bit behind. Let's develop that a bit. Yes

for example, the European Union, the UN asks us to be more inclusive

that we remove the laws that we remove the laws uh about schooling

combined uh that we eliminate the centers of well they don't say we eliminate the centers of Special Education uh but yes

they point out that the LOE has that regulation then uh I get the feeling that we are always a bit behind

very good thank you very much Rosa then the convention says it the

convention says that we cannot continue with two parallel systems one special education and one mainstream education That

is stated Well more ideas Thank you very much for your comments Rosa

in the workshops always let's see explain that a bit Jesús

that it's a place where everyone feels good and comfortable I think that's it

sí que se habla de inclusión pero es un sitio inclusivo de verdad Donde toda la gente puede decir sin sin miedo y se

siente protegida y se siente a gusto y se siente con que su voz vale con todo lo

siempre de que debe ser un espacio inclusivo No pues es ese es un espacio inclusivo que sí

que vale porque hay que mejorar cositas lógicamente no el tema de la comunicación es una de las cosas que sí

que bueno que ya iremos trabajando pero que creo que es un

espacio donde la inclusión se respira realmente Muchas gracias Jesús yo De

hecho cuando estaba hablando Ana tenía por aquí apuntado no un taller los

talleres emergieron de las asambleas es decir que cuando había un tema de un taller era algo que había salido de una

previous assembly and one was raised by Ana the ableism within

from anti-ableist but we still are it's like the

sexism within feminism no we continue we continue we continue no and I think something here is interesting

to understand that inclusion is never a state but it is always a process

This is something problematic because many times we think of inclusion as as

a goal to reach no and when we say we talk about process many times what we do is shield ourselves by saying that the

thing is going slowly Carmen also raised this but it is impossible not to think that it is a

process meaning to say it's not something where you settle in but it's something where you

pretendes ir siempre mejorando entonces hablar de esto de de de por ejemplo las

carencias que tuvimos nosotros en en el workshop muestra que siempre se puede

aprender y estar en esta disposición de que siempre podemos aprender Eso es lo más cercano a la educación inclusiva

entonces una escuela que quiere ser inclusiva nunca será del todo inclusiva como no será nunca del todo justa como

no será nunca del todo igualitaria pero eh esta esta tensión o este deseo

continuo por seguir mejorando sabiendo que nos podemos evaluar y que podemos mejorar de eso va la la educación

inclusiva yo creo que Jesús también estaba Rescatando esta idea

Paloma Pues a mí me pasa un poco como como lo que está diciendo Jesús y lo que decía antes Marta Yo voy a hablar un

a little bit of what I felt most of what it was was a working conference

hard but for me it was like a festival of joy to feel accompanied not

judged it's like it reinforces my discourse on inclusion it's like I keep

thinking that we have to keep reviewing ourselves permanently because I remember when I went to meet Nacho

alone and after having met him I wrote to him I commented

on Twitter that I don't usually interact like that because I get a bit shy and I made the comment I thought about it a lot

to make sure it was accurate and I made the most ableist comment

in the world because what I told him was Thank you for giving a voice to the students and and and when I wrote it

I just thought, Oh my God, if it's like amplifying it, and he answered me, very well, very, but it's like

I felt, I felt very good about everything that was generated on a personal level

because I could hear from people who had similar or different experiences, but

that the feelings that move us are the same, and I strongly reinforce the idea

that we have to work at the local level for changes to happen. We have to

work in schools, we have to work in city councils, we have to work, we have to focus a lot on the local

and then I felt very, very fortunate to be, I think, one of the few people who

was accompanied by a mom who is not a mom, but is the mom of

school and and I think that for her it was also a transformation this

I returned home with a feeling of a hangover, meaning something happened

physical it went beyond the mental I think I think many of the people

well there several people verbalized it is that this experience is affecting us and and and and I felt it very much like that

I learned a lot a lot well what a joy Paloma well I think it is

shared by many people of course by me first eh that it was an experience in

which I was discussing before I think Ana also did a sweep of

beginning and and that had to do with later also

Rafaela has raised the point that H is probably something very powerful or

perhaps uh one of the mistakes we've often made when we think about social and educational changes is that

we only think from rationality and don't think from emotion. In other words, we don't

take emotion into account, right? So, in a meeting like this,

emotion is always at the forefront: the emotion of what happened to me at school, the emotion

of the desire to change, the emotion of being with other people who experience similar things. So that emotion ultimately

becomes the engine that, of course, then drives all that rational mechanism that we are

building together, but emotion is the engine, and talking about inclusive education should be

siempre unido a la emoción de de que estamos construyendo algo

mejor algo un mundo mejor y no es solo mi escuela no es algo que solo ocurra en

mi escuela sino que es algo que estamos construyendo en muchos lugares dice paloma y yo creo que hay que rescatar la

importancia de lo local y efectivamente estamos nos reunimos gente de Uruguay de

México de Argentina y de España de diferentes lugares de España y nos reunimos para después trabajar en lo

local para mí eh Y ya con esto cierro porque le toca ahora a Tere e seguir

avanzando en la agenda del día H para mí el encuentro sirvió

para ubicar eh todos esos debates que son tan globales en todas esas

experiencias que son también tan globales decía Eli cómo cómo encontraba Cómo veía a los chicos y chicas de de

allí de de México reflejados en las historias de de los chicos y chicas de

aquí de España no entonces eh todo ese debate global al final cobra sentido en

lo local y no hay una un mejor espacio para que cobre sentido que la red de

escuelas que tenemos aquí es decir que son escuelas que están trabajando por avanzar en lo que ocurre dentro de su

institución Y que además lo están haciendo acompañados Por las experiencias de otra gente de otras

escuelas en en este texto est que acabamos de publicar e varias varios colegas de diferentes

universidades de Manchester Uruguay chile y

España hay una idea que es que el profesorado inclusivo No solo está

preocupado por su alumnado sino que está preocupado por el alumnado por toda la

infancia es una preocupación por toda la infancia eso va mucho más allá de mi propia escuela de mi familia de mi va va

más allá Es un deseo de cambio que está e desparramado por toda la sociedad Y

ahora yo localmente trabajo para en pro de eso bueno ha sido un placer

escucharos creo que Quienes no pudieron estar se llevan eh un breve resumen de

lo que allí pasó eh Por supuesto habrá tiempo para seguir eh hablando de

aquello que pasó compartiremos todos los vídeos los podréis ver qui quien le apetezca verlos Hay alguno que merece la

pain, as Vicky said, and well, I want to thank all the effort that it meant for many people

to be there and also for other people to be online, which means that

being online is much more difficult than being in person, and there was a lot of effort and many people

who, well, spent their money, spent their time, dedicated a lot of

time to thinking together with other people, and that was the fuel for what

happened there. So, thank you very much. I think important ideas for this network emerged from there, and we hope

we hope they can emerge little by little. So, Tere, you have

the floor now with the second item on the agenda. I have a few minutes.

pues muchas gracias Nacho Bueno yo aprovecho para saludaros a todas que como decía veo muchas caras conocidas

por aquí sea que que nada daros la bienvenida también a los que venís de la

otra del otro lado del Charco como decíamos por aquí en el ámbito nacional

español Bueno yo voy a continuar un poco con una

cosa que no que espero que no pare sino que sirva de palanca como decía hay por aquí rosa para arrancar no

eh Y que pretende ir en esta línea de que no de que no perdamos esa emoción

como motor eh que debe estar yo creo presente en todo lo que lo que vamos a

ir haciendo eh sabíais que traíamos una tarea para hoy somos conscientes y ya

Nacho said at the beginning that it wouldn't be possible for all the schools, well, for you all to have it

ready on time because it's an accelerated pace, and each of us knows that

we have our own time, there are various activities, so

Well, the task for today was to carry out a participatory diagnosis in your

Educational Center, to see, above all, we proposed several

questions that we said were a guide because each center will apply it a little bit, the diagnosis will be

contextualized according to where it is located, the type of population it has,

etc. We proposed four guiding questions that could be useful: one was, What is the school like?

tenemos no para describir un poquito para alcanzar esa panorámica digamos

general de de la escuela Cómo se enseña y cómo se aprende nuestra escuela que

sería un poco el objetivo ahí sería detectar pues Cuáles son las barreras de

aprendizaje Cómo es la relación con tus compañeros compañeras y y profesores y

profesoras no para ver pues qué barreras pueden estar existiendo a la

participación y ya por último como es la escuela de tu sueño no para hacer esa proyección de de escuela me costa por

algunos mensajes que han ido llegando y tal que que hay escuelas que si bien no

tienen terminado todavía el diagnóstico lo están trabajando Eh sí me gustaría aclarar

Because maybe there is some I don't know if there is any confusion in that sense, I say it because of these messages I receive about

that this this sheet is aimed at carrying out a diagnosis. This means that we do have to

keep in mind the projection of the school we want. But it is important that we carry out a

thorough diagnosis of the school we have. And from there, we can move towards that

projection of the school we want, okay? I say this so that those of you who have not yet

carried out the diagnosis keep those two perspectives in mind, that is, an analysis, a diagnosis of what we have at this

moment to detect what those obstacles and barriers to inclusion are, and on the other hand, that projection

of the school that we want. I am not going to, if I see it necessary,

based on the participations we have, I will do it at the end because I know there are some centers that have already done

their diagnosis and have to leave soon, so I was going to do

a brief, very brief summary of what Nacho sent you all and

that we already discussed in the previous session about how we can organize the center to do that

diagnosis, but instead of doing it like that, I will start by that synthesis. I will start

uh well, by giving, not giving voice, because they have the voice, as we are saying, but inviting

those centers that have already carried out that diagnosis, and there are several, in fact, we have already received their their form, to

tell us how the process was, how they organized the groups, what difficulties they encountered

encontrado sobre todo Para orientar también aquellos coles que todavía no se han iniciado en este proceso por el

tiempo o aquellos que sí se han iniciado pero que todavía no no lo han finalizado porque algunos lo están haciendo por

sesiones eh Bueno pues que nos den alguna idea de de cómo cómo ha ido el

proceso Cómo lo han vivido los distintos colectivos no que conforma la escuela Y

bueno pues Ahí os lanzo esa invitación como dice Nacho sé que el primero a lo

mejor cuesta pero os invito a que nos comentéis un poco sé que hay algunos centros de hecho ahora mismo aquí

venga aquí pone coordinadora proa no sé soy yo Maica Ah maik que no te veía

venga Maica coment bueno como lo hemos enviado empezamos nosotros y así ya ya

está eh nosotros no hemos hecho exactamente

el formato que nos explicaste el otro día porque lo hemos adaptado como muy bien nos dijisteis a a nuestra realidad

no lo que hemos hecho es aprovechar algunas cositas que ya el centro venía

trabajando en especial eh algunas actividades que habíamos hecho con el programa proa no

me acuerdo quién lo comentó en la última sesión que preguntó si podíamos aprovechar algunas cosas hechas en proa

y contestaste que sí si se adaptaban no Bueno pues es lo que hemos hecho nosotros hace unos años hicimos un

cuando empezamos con el programa proa Así que pasamos un cuestionario de índice por la

inclusión con los resultados de aquel cuestionario a familias alumnado personal no docente profesorado pues eh

recogimos todos esos resultados y después preparamos un claustro pedagógico porque una algunos algunas

personas del centro habían hecho una formación en evaluación de Barreras juntamos esas dos cosas e hicimos un

claustro pedagógico para hablar de culturas inclusivas del centro Entonces el profesorado dio su opinión en

relación a siete ámbitos en los que nosotros agrupamos respeto participación colaboración bueno tampoco me quiero

extender mucho en eso eh Y el profesorado analizó eh el estado del

centro y Y a partir de ahí al año siguiente en una formación hicimos algunas propuestas Como por ejemplo pues

una herramienta para hacer la presentación del alumnado que nos permitiera no centrarnos en un

diagnóstico sino en una en Cómo es un grupo para luego poder abordar las

needs that an entire group might have, not individuals, but if a group presented them,

we needed to intervene more in one way or another, and all of that came from that pedagogical council and from

subsequent training. So, being a very large center, we

couldn't afford to hold a meeting with all the families and students. We have over a thousand students, so it seemed

unfeasible. What we did was choose one grade level, and in the third year of primary school, we did an activity with all the students as well

regarding the assessment of inclusive culture. We asked them some questions, and they had to rate how

they consider the center to be, from one to five, and justify their answer in several aspects, three aspects for

each of the areas. Then we gathered all the students' responses, and now we are at the point of

analyze that and a few days later we told the students to explain to their

families at home what they had done and we convened the families we did

an activity called the inclusion traffic light that we also focused on

through the questions that appear in the index for inclusion, we had

families place on a red, yellow, green traffic light where they think the center is

and now the moment we are in is collecting all this information, putting it together and then doing

a session bringing together families and students, a bit more now that we have gathered this vision

to come up with proposals, to draw conclusions from this analysis

part that we liked that we put in the file well the students got involved 100% not 200% it was a

thing some discussions in class and I think it's wonderful. The truth is that the activity with the students was very beautiful

and then reading everything they had written made us see things that perhaps we are not seeing and that we will have

to sit down and analyze in much more detail

but the session with the families was disappointing, it was frustrating because we had

prepared it, we thought about it a lot, consciously, we asked for help from the PTA to

get their opinion on whether they thought we were on the right track, in short, we had prepared it within our

possibilities, I think consciously, and very few people came, but very few, it even makes us a little bit

it is shameful to say the number of participants was low, but what we have gathered from that meeting

well, it is not significant, because there were so few, and so we are happy on one hand, and a bit

frustrated on the other, and we have decided that well, maybe we will repeat the meeting, we will do more promotion on

the center's networks, and if people see that this was done and families attended and it had a result,

then let's see if we can gradually get more people to come. Therefore, we believe that

our weak point is participation, which is the basis for us to be able to do

everything else. Well, I don't know if I explained it very well so you can get a bit of an idea. I don't know if Cristina

wants to add anything. Thank you very much, Mik, you've explained it well.

perfectamente lo habéis contado perfectamente y como como decíamos pues está bien está muy bien que vosotros

despertéis esa creatividad para crear instrumentos nuevos en esa recogida de información u otros que ya habéis usado

le deis esa forma porque que bueno de eso se trata no de incrementar el trabajo sino de aprovechar el trabajo

que que ya estamos haciendo no me preguntaban antes de dar paso a Nacho

que quería deciros algo creo me preguntaban por el chat el nombre de

vuestro centro Maica Ah disculpa es elc de Levante de menorca Muchas gracias Nacho

cuéntanos yo solo iba a decir una frase que decía mi madre vergüenza de robar

[Risas] vergüenza de robar lo que quiero decir que bueno lo

that we have not achieved now is something that lies ahead to do But shame how will it be shameful

that has happened you have opened up to participation you yourselves are detecting that that is a focus that

you have to work on that shame nothing is something that must be advanced on well perhaps it is that

we are a little frustrated too and this was last week and then we had to manage it

it is also true that the next day one of the participating mothers sent us a very beautiful email very beautiful about how

gratitude that a center opens up in this way willing to receive I believe that participation processes are

something that happens that trust is also gained little by

little well as Nacho says what you have to take away is the words of that

mother and that more words from another family arrive here

María Panadero also raised her hand, María

Come on, we can't hear you. Can you hear me? Yes.

Nothing, I wanted to offer some comfort to my colleagues by telling them that

we were also left with the feeling that 15 parents seemed very few

for what we expected in a school of 350 students, but

we held a participatory assembly and we didn't use the

marked questions either because we didn't do it with the students this time, only with the teaching staff and families.

Entonces le dimos una vuelta también hemos rellenado la ficha Pero muy contentos con la actividad

porque se se vio una bueno se dio una visión diferente no entre en los padres poder

escuchar a los profes desde la misma altura no no siempre desde el centro hacia fuera sino que fue recíproco y la

verdad que fue muy divertido y muy positivo pero nos quedamos también con la sensación de decir que hemos hecho

mal para que el resto de familias sobre todo al contrario de lo que pasó en el

workshop en este caso nosotros tuvimos familias de alumnado general y sin

embargo echamos en falta a a los nuestros No a lo que a los que necesitábamos que que sacaran allí su

voz así que nos quedamos con esa reflexión muy positivo todo y y no sé Esperando poder utilizar las

redes de otra forma para la próxima y que y que puedan participar más familias s puede

ser Muchas gracias María desde luego yo creo que esto es una

es algo generalizado no es algo que vaya pasar en vuestro centro sabemos que muchas veces bueno no no hemos sido

formados para participar y de repente Pues introducirnos en una cultura participativa pues no es fácil ni para

la familia ni para otros colectivos Yo sí que voy a seguir están levantando

mucho la mano ahora voy a ir dando paso sí que animar a María que esto mismo que

habéis hecho con familia y con los profesores que lo estendis al alumnado que os vais a llevar una grata sorpresa

porque bueno muchas tenemos la experiencia y las compañeras también de

de la Parra que están por aquí os Pueden decir que muchos de de los momentos en

los que el el proceso de diagnóstico Incluso el proceso de investigación se veía más atascado pues han sido los

alumnos los que han incentivado esa participación de la familia de los profesores entonces a que sigáis

trabajando en esa en esa línea y que invité también al alumnado a a que lo

haga Bueno sigo por ahí se abierto un micrófono a ver

ahora bueno la siguiente que haba levantado la mano es Isabel

mejías ya si no te importa Teresa voy a hablar yo porque soy compañera de María

lo primero que tengo que decir estoy orgullosa del cole en el que estamos y estoy super orgullosa de María eh Porque

and also she is an extraordinary person, more than that. So, well, I also wanted to mention, honestly,

it was a very emotional process and the entire faculty participated,

and 15, 15, 15 parents of students

and two, two girls who do re-education, who are also, who are also families.

So we rethought it. First, the intention was to gather preliminary information to know what

topics to address and also to see what team we could have.

But well, in the end, we've done it a bit in reverse. First, we presented, and then

we will gather information regarding the children. We will have a workshop divided into hours.

día 3 de el día 3 de diciembre el día de la discapacidad por ser un un día así un

poco más un poco más señalado Porque además nuestro centro se mueve mucho y tiene muchas eh tiene muchas actividades

y Y bueno pues nada muy emocionante y la verdad es que eh con un poquito de dolor

de corazón de que participaran pocas familias sí que nos han dicho que eso se avisa de otra manera eh que a lo mejor

la antelación No fue mucha Y bueno pues eh para el siguiente encuentro Porque estos son rondas eh la primera ronda

Pues a lo mejor eh contentos pero con ganas con ganas de más en la siguiente ronda pues ya a lo mejor incluso nos

metemos en política eh invitamos a a invitamos a a los partidos eh En este

caso que que forman parte del del entorno es una localidad de 10,000 habitantes entonces eh yo creo que eso

también puede ser un un una palanca para mover ciertas cosas no que nos pueden que nos pueden beneficiar Y bueno ya

está yo super orgullosa de mi Cole y super orgullosa de María

Muchísimas gracias nosotros super orgullosos de teneros en en esta red

bueno Isabel que me habías dado antes la palabra eso Isabel sí decir una cosa que

me están comentando por aquí por el chat si podéis decir vuestro centro para que no lo situemos gracias Bueno pues yo soy

del del ce príncipe de Asturias de almansa albacete y yo lo tengo muy

fresquito porque hice ayer la la actividad eh Nosotros sí que implicamos a toda la

comunidad educativa eh lo hicimos con todo el alumnado nos atrevimos ahí con

with our school has 315 students so we made 18 groups, uh

with all the children mixed and the truth is that very enriching and very beautiful situations arose

I must also say that the families, well, what the feeling of all of them was, that

for so many families there are, well, nine attended in my case

and and, well, I had to go there begging at the door after sending all the

information, well, what worked best for me was then doing the, the, the, the

emotional blackmail, come on, because there was no way. Well, everyone has their life organized and as

it was in the morning and such, well, we had also done the

experiencia previamente con el profesorado que también salió muy chula en una fcp Y bueno pues ayer

eh el el combinar que los Porque algunos decían buen qu van a decir niños de 3

años Bueno pues con los mayores que los emparejándose

lo que no sé si a lo mejor tendríamos que haberle dado una vueltecilla es a las preguntas porque nosotros sí que

usamos las mismas preguntas que proponía y claro e No salieron tantos temas de la

inclusión en sí o pues propuestas que hicieron a nivel de mejoras de de sus

sueños era a nivel de recursos colegio con más color colegio con dijeron hasta

con piscina claro se ponen a soñar eh pero sí luego salieron otras cosas pues

more time on technology less on the chair Well things came out that will surely enrich us

And and well also another factor that I

was concerned about and I am not happy with how it finally turned out was the final assembly

because of course later with all the students an assembly with the conclusions the panel of experts Yes

it went well it was agile and enriching but then the general assembly

I didn't know how to do it so that the children would get the message although

I think they already got it from the previous session and there it was a bit of a chaos it was a bit of a chaos But well

we learn from everything and for the next time we do something like this then

we will look for improvements in any case I am happy and I have taken a weight off my shoulders because I was very nervous about

the situation I also have to say that I was going to have the help of students

from the Faculty of Education of the University of Valencia but due to the DANA they have

canceled all activities and at the last minute they canceled it too

we were a bit overwhelmed to manage so many children with the teaching staff we have and the mothers

that the mothers ended up being the other adult in each classroom well

And I also had the help of Marta, Marta Sánchez from Almansa, from the SAE, who also

helped me and I thanked her and I thank her infinitely. Well,

nada Muchas gracias Isabel como tú di te has quitado este

peso encima no queremos que sea un peso pero entiendo lo entiendo entiendo

perfectamente eración muy grande y no sabía cómo iba a salir y

entiendo perfectamente además que valoramos muchísimo el esfuerzo que que estáis haciendo porque movilizar sobre

todo los centros con con tantos alumnos movilizar a tantos alumnado tantos

profesorados familia eh Y y que eso de alguna manera articularlo bien para que

no se forme ese caos es muy complicado Isabel si la idea es ir creando poco a

poco esos espacios para que se vayan acostumbrando esos a esa cultura de participación no y

lo que al principio puede parecer un caos es una oportunidad para ir generando esos nuevos espacios de de

participación y yo creo que seguro lo lo agradecen bueno Noelia había levantado

la mano Perdona María Teresa que me permitís que me cuele un minuto Solamente porque como me ha nombrado

Isabel yo solamente quería agradecerle a ella la oportunidad que me dio de poder participar fue muy emocionante estuve en

una aula de infantil me pareció eh la manera de organizarlo maravillosa Isabel

de verdad las profes al menos con la profe con la que yo estuve infantil entendió perfectamente la dinámica y

bueno ver a los grupos de chicos trabajando en cada uno en sus mesas no ver esa interacción entre los mayores y

los pequeños Cómo se ayudaban unos a otros y bueno las ideas que luego surgieron cuando los propios alumnos más

were the ones who were categorizing No generating categories from each of the positions

that the children had placed was very interesting perhaps there

at that moment, at least as I experienced it in that classroom, it was important to interact with the children to see

how they interpreted everything that their classmates had collected. And it was very

interesting because I remember that in that classroom there were several children who said we want video games in the

classes there are video games. And then analyzing it with them, one of the older ones said, my goodness, what nonsense

they've just put here, right? In the classroom, at school, we're going to be playing video games. And then, talking with

them, I told them, well, maybe the video game thing can be broader, it can be, we can play all kinds of games.

games no And then I told them Well look there is a teaching method called gamification and of course they looked at me

with a surprised face as if to say And what is that I said Learning through games and they said And can that be done

no I mean it was very interesting the the no the conversation with them and from those

ideas that they came up with that at first seemed out of place no ideas emerged that they

themselves said wow maybe that could be the school of our dreams it was very interesting

very very much so thank you very much Isabel for allowing me to be there like that

like that Thank you both very much for sharing that experience and well we are going to continue sharing experiences

because I see that there are many of you here who have done your homework

No, I'm not here, I don't know if it's good because I was in the street, also acting as a

mother in the park, and the first thing, Isabel, from us, we also launched ourselves

we did something very similar to what you set up, that party for coexistence. We are from

Hispanidad in Zaragoza, and we also decided to take the plunge with the whole

school, all the families, and the non-teaching staff. We also invited the staff from the

Inclusion team, Autism, that we have here in Aragon. Uh,

there was a lot of participation. In the case of families, it's true that the representation was also from about 15 people, 15 families, but we launched

simultaneously for all those families who couldn't come due to work issues, a questionnaire.

Google forms with these questions to receive them at the same time, so it was also a way to bring them closer to the School

and make them participate, participate, I don't know if you had considered it because it's an idea now with technology we

all get together a little more. We also saw it in a very beautiful way because we also did inter-grade groups

in the classes. It was done at the same time. The teaching staff did it the previous day,

which served as preparation to see what was coming, and the children did it at the same time as the

families. We had a whole school day from 9 am to 2 pm, from

the presentation, organization of older and younger students in the classrooms so they knew where they had to go and what was

going to happen, to getting to know a little about the situation in the school regarding the coexistence plan.

doing the assembly together and the and the last big assembly that we also had problems being able to do an

assembly with 344 students We are a school center with a preference for students with ASD and our students are in

the classrooms like the reor the students and so many changes meant

a lot of stress also for for some of our students and

we decided to make video calls in the classrooms that were connected to that big assembly so that they could

follow it and participate it was a very beautiful experience

I felt very very happy too because on the classroom screens

we projected a specific communicator I don't know if it's there I don't remember well

the name of a mother I met at the workshop who spoke about her daughter's communication devices

Paloma's already spoken about Paloma Paloma The communication devices

our students were the communication devices in the classroom and they helped everyone to have

ideas about what they could talk about at school, what they liked and didn't like. And it was our way of ensuring that

everyone could express themselves. We also used drawing, not only did they write on a colorful post-it

everything was very structured, like a methodology for everyone, everything was very accessible and and they

could draw their ideas, they could speak through the communication device, they could express them orally, and it was

amazing to see 3-year-olds making drawings, drawings that didn't need any words

and I believe that what I suppose is because we live a lot of tension to

put it together a lot of stress so this is perhaps the group that in the end pulls a bit of everything, uh I think what most

shocked me about my school, we always do these things, we had already done a diagnosis 4 years ago when we started this whole process, was that

there was a part of the teaching staff who thought that this was useless and that it generated more problems for them

than benefit, you know, everyone's opinion, and yet I contrasted it with what the children said or what

the families said. The families were delighted, they only received good words and gratitude for

letting them participate in the school, and the non-teaching staff felt super included, early risers, janitors,

administrative staff, lunch monitors. I think it was a very important turning point to understand that

inclusión no estaba dirigida a ese alumnado que pensamos que excluimos sino a todos los participantes de la comunidad

educativa y yo creo que e Bueno no sé si tengo más compañeras por ahí que quieren hablar

pero un poco nerviosa por estar aquí en el parque hablando esto yo soy Marina soy la directora del

centro y y tristemente yo no pude estar en la sesión presidencialmente porque estoy de baja nada grave pero no no

podía estar Y sí que estuve tuve la oportunidad de poder estar en la asamblea final online entonces a mí lo

que me llegó por parte de mis compañeras que son las que al final pues tiramos siempre del carro las mismas personas eh

sí que me gustaría volver a decir que lo digo Siempre que yo no soy ni PT ni a ni psicopedagoga ni nada de nada Soy maestra de primaria y Lucho por la

inclusión y no tengo alrededor a nadie con diversidad funcional Entonces quiero decir que sí estamos y hay gente vale

hay gente y necesitamos estos momentos quería volverlo a decir para poder tener ese chute de energía y poder seguir

adelante porque somos poquitos pero estamos Bueno entonces lo que quería decir simplemente era que desde fuera a

mí me estaban llegando estas cosas que siempre las vivo desde dentro con ese estrés que ha dicho Noelia de para dar

las cosas y tal y yo las vivía desde fuera pero a mí me está llegando lo feo lo feo de primero hacemos lo de la

tensión que tienen todos estos profesores y profesoras que algunos sí que creen en ello y otros no creen en

ello y te está llegando esto y dices el lo de antes es muy feo y ver ese contraste de El no llego o é Es que esto

no puede ser Es que esto es mentira y de repente escuchar a los niños decir mi escuela es maravillosa mi escuela me escucha mi escuela me atiende los

profesores son maravillosos esos mismos que se estaban quejando el día de antes estaban escuchando de parte del alumnado

that their teachers are wonderful and what I liked most about all the children in every class was how

we learn and they said with patience and affection and they were saying that to the teachers who the day before

were saying it's not possible And that for me was, well, brutal and that's it, sorry because I interrupted. Nothing.

Marina, thank you very much to both of you and I'm left with that generosity from the students

that we mentioned at the beginning, that's why it's so important to take their voice into account

because because well, they are those levers we talked about earlier, they are levers

fundamental. So, congratulations on the work you have done

and well, we continue with the other hands that are raised.

hay aquí más experiencia y nos vamos quedando con poquito tiempo Bueno antes de pasar a a Víctor comentar por aquí

por el chat que para que os hagáis una idea de esa de esa imaginación que está

viendo en los centros no para contextualizar esta dinámica que planteábamos comentaban por aquí por

ejemplo de l Sagrado Corazón de Málaga que ellos estaban haciendo el diagnóstico desde el grupo de alumnado

de Tercer y cuarto de la eso y decían Esto está permitiendo que haya más familias que estén participando y la lo

que han hecho es que la fase de los sueños lo han hecho como una lluvia de ideas y cuando exponen las ideas lo hacen a través de barcos de

eh que cuando quieren hacer las jornadas con todos los miembros de la comunidad

vale hemos visto que vosotras habéis echado mano ahí de los dibujos de Bueno pues vemos que que la imaginativa aquí

it is immeasurable So well Victor tell us about your

experience how are you Good morning good afternoon there with you I think This I can

share my screen to show you

of course

let's see I think I think you already

see it you see it Yes Victor yes Oh it's just that I couldn't

hear you Sorry this look there they are We actually

did our diagnosis on the first day of the workshop

we overlap with the dates so that's why we couldn't be there beforehand, my apologies. Nacho, I saw that I saw that

there was even a participation from a small project that I was supposed to do, but I

the dates overlapped and I didn't realize, and that day also coincided with us here in Mexico

having what are called technical councils; they used to be every last day of the month, but now

sometimes, for example, last month we had it, this month we have it on the last Friday of the month, so that day

the three activities overlapped, and we decided to do our diagnosis.

In fact, we hadn't reviewed, I hadn't reviewed the material you sent us until later, but we did see

that it turned out very, very similar. The only thing we took as

the reference was the presentation you gave us in the previous session, so my colleagues from USAER, well, in front

There, we all took screenshots of the questions you raised, and we modified them a bit here.

the first image up here, well, we are framing the activity for parents of

families and students. We presented and invited

mainly the students from USAER, who are around 44 students. Well,

now my colleagues will help me with parents and we asked for the

participation of 17 groups from my school. We asked for the participation of two or three members with, well, three

students with their parents. We had around 160 participants in this event.

between students and and parents, so they were given the framework for the activity and

afterwards we went, let me see, right now, well, here it is, these are, let's say, like

the work tables. There they are, and do you consider your school inclusive? Before moving on to this, we

divided the parents into one team and the students into another. The parents went with

part of the USAER staff to the audiovisual room, and they showed them some

videos to raise awareness. Uh, and, and another, and another part of the USAER team took

the students to the building that is currently the school's cafeteria. After we, after we did that

awareness-raising, we considered it important to first highlight

poquito Qué es la inclusión por eso los los los mandamos así en dos equipos para

que los maestros de usaer me hicieran el favor de de darles Pues un panorama más a los padres de familia y y se enfocaran

más en la se centraran más en la actividad miren aquí están las imágenes Aquí están los padres de familia en la

sala audiovisual este recibiéndola por parte de la directora de usaer y sus

compañeros la maestra sochil que ahorita también va a participar este aquí están

pues ellos les digo recibiendo este encuadre también aquí están también mis maestros ahí es que se ven ahí son

algunos de mis maestros acá están los los alumnos este también realizando una actividad ahí

sobre sobre el tema también este este les digo ellos estaban acá en otro espacio en el desayunador aquí lo

sacaron a la cancha un ratito ahí para para poder este practicar y aquí Bueno pues ya son las mesas de trabajo después

de esta sensibilización que se hizo así en dos equipos se se Se juntaron el

maestro de Educación Física puso una dinámica para formar equipos de ciertas personas para que acudieran a las mesas

donde teníamos las preguntas ahorita no sé ahorita si mis compañeras me pueden apoyar a a a rescatar las preguntas que

no les tengo aquí a la mano Este pero cada uno de los maestros se encargó de

una pregunta y lo dividimos para que contestaran alumnos maestros y padres de

familia y entonces los los docentes que estaban ahí eh Como moderadores pues ya

encaminaban la pregunta A bueno para que la contestara cada uno de los participantes lo hicimos este Algo

similar to how they presented it to us, we did it with little papers and they were sticking them there with tape,

space right now, look, there they are, where they lent them the markers to the kids so they could put

their answer to the parents, we gave them about 5 minutes and then we changed so that we changed

the the table, the teams would rotate, they rotated at the tables to

be able to participate in all the questions. Here's another, another

table. That's me. And to finish, uh,

we close with this one: what would be the school of your dreams? That

was the final question. They participated, uh,

Sorry, sorry, I'm not going to anymore

Oh, I've already read here. Well, while I read, here it is, here it is

are participating in the working groups. We also have some videos. Look, here it is: Do you consider your school to be

inclusive? And this is the final activity.

You've stopped sharing. But in any case, yes, briefly, because there are other words that need to be included.

And, and to finish, we also gave the colleagues there

Well, to the parents, we shared a little lunch with them to be able to finish the

activity. And well, right now we are in the, in the

este en la parte final de de revisar las las preguntas estamos en la parte final

de de de revisar estas esta los resultados Pues de las respuestas para

poder este concentrar la información y pues bueno haía grandes rasgos en la actividad y si quisiera que me

asesoraran un poquito ando perdido en esta ficha que dicen que hay que llenar

gracias gracias a ti Víctor como nos vamos quedando sin tiempo porque Mariana

tiene que que explicar un poquito Cuál sería la la tarea para la siguiente sesión pero todavía hay varias manos

levantadas si os parece vamos a intentar hacer intervenciones cortitas de 2s

minutitos yo lo siento muchísimo porque sois muchísimo centro y y seguro que lo

that you have to share is invaluable but you already know that the files will be available anyway

also so that other reference centers can use them and if I don't want to leave

without at least giving you the floor even for a couple of minutes, would you allow me to? No

Nacho Of course, of course, yes, come on because because well it's a task that

as they say here has required a great effort. I think at least a couple of minutes we have to

leave well here I had Cristina Cristina Rivera Yes hello good

Hello Cristina, tell us, well my school is one of those that

has already done the first diagnosis and well, on the contrary to

you have been counting We did have quite a bit of family participation compared to other types of

activities It's true that my school is very small and there are very few families

who participate but those who do participate a lot but we wanted more to participate so we helped

ourselves with social media on the one hand and on the other hand the way of approaching the activity yes there was an activity that was

analysis and and really of of research but we also wanted to build community we

wanted to have a breakfast where we were all together where we had a different kind of context where we could

interact outside of the usual places it's just that families interact with

teachers in a relaxed setting that would lead to conversations outside of that then

eh vinieron más familias y y la verdad que la actividad gustó muchísimo

Eh mi centro de hecho había momentos en los que decíamos no puede ser que todo el mundo esté de acuerdo no hay otra

cosa que no tenga que decir que que que realmente queréis que cambiemos Entonces

era a que estaba Genial porque Bueno nos indicaban que íbamos bien por este camino pero nosotros queríamos sacarle

ahí un poco de venga que qué qué cambiamos qué hacemos y y nada realmente

demandaban las familias y el alumnado muchas más actividades de convivencia los niños edes decían señor

es el mejor colegio del mundo me encanta porque claro ellos habían podido estar ech ahí toda la mañana explicando

diciendo conviviendo los pequeños con los mayores ayudándose entre ello entonces fue fue una experiencia muy

beautiful and they demand more, we will focus on another type of coexistence, but for me

That was the key to participation, being able to be together at a

relaxed moment and although the excuse was really research, but

we were able to spend some time socializing, which often we go so

fast that we don't have time. Thank you very much, Cristina. I think

they have told you the key, haven't they? Organizing more coexistence activities. Well, we will have to listen to them. Thank you very much for

your experience. Vicky, you were also going to share your school's experience.

they don't locate it, not in the school, etc. Vicky: Yes, my school is a school in Valencia, okay?

que es un bueno son 360 alumnos e es un Cole pues muy diverso no como

todos un poco más Y entonces lo que pasa es que que que

nos pasó la Dana íbamos a hacer el el tema este de otra manera pero pasó la

Dana en mi centro no en mi la zona de valencia donde estamos no afectado afectado 5 km más para allá entonces

claro eh lo que pensamos así rápidamente de un día para otro fue Bueno pues vamos

a hacerlo sobre este tema y antes una compañera decía es que yo no sé si esto

si lo que hemos sacado tiene algo que ver con la inclusión no con la inclusión y la equidad que es de lo que va esto y

y yo me hacía la misma pregunta esto que estamos haciendo tiene algo que ver con con la inclusión y con la equidad y yo

creo que sí nosotros lo hicimos en torno a a una en torno a un tema que era eh

primero qué nos había pasado con con este tema y luego qué podemos hacer el el cole no como Cole para para ayudar en

esta situación qué podíamos hacer Y por qué eso tiene que ver con la inclusión y con la equidad pues porque lo que tiene

que ver es en aprender como Cole y enseñar a los niños a y a las familias y

a nosotros mismos a hacernos responsables de lo que sucede de la dimensión social no que que tenemos las

personas y que eh Y que en eso pues tenemos tenemos algo que hacer tenemos

algo que decir tenemos tenemos capacidad y podemos pensar como pensarnos como

agentes activos no y participativos en esta sociedad que que claro decimos cómo

yo como có voy a enseñarles a los alumnos de mi Cole que que si en su

clase hay un niño que no puede hablar eh Pues es responsabilidad de ellos el el

el no dejarlo de lado y el y el hacerlo participe y estar con él para que sea

uno más cómo voy a hacerles yo eh con o sea cómo voy a trabajar yo eso Si

resulta que pasa 5 km de de tu casa un una desgracia y no te vas a y no y aquí

no ha pasado nada no es como si no hubiera pasado nada Entonces nada y decir también comparto con con las

compañeras de Zaragoza que es un proceso muy contradictorio porque Además nosotros lo preparamos en una semana Así

vale venga vamos a hacerlo lo hacemos No porque fue como decir pero a ver

we're back to school because we had three or four days without school, well, a disaster

so we come back and we were saying, but how can it be that this week ends without having done it? Let's do it and we

launched and so on and we had, well, all those resistances but of course that contrasted with the amount of

beauties that were coming out in the classrooms that the children were saying and and

nothing has been very contradictory in a week it can be organized But well, everything very, very fast, very

contradictory but but it has been wonderful and today we have just had the meeting of the steering group and and and

the truth is that beautiful things are coming out that we adults could not have imagined even

jokingly, well, but that's it. Thank you very much.

on this occasion, due to my center's logistical issues, I had to move to another school. So I am

supporting as an external consultant. My experience, and truly, it's like an

anecdote and a saying that is often heard here. I'm like a peacock, you know, with

my full plumage spread, because I've encountered several situations and comments

from several parents from other schools where I am currently working, where I am

carrying out the project remotely. They have told me, they have commented to me that there are even two children who

have withdrawn from the school where I am currently working and went to Belizario Dominguez because they say that

the approach towards the children, the teachers, the facilities are superb.

it's better not than better than a school, they said, it's satisfying to see that the

work we've done over a school year has borne fruit in an unexpected, abrupt way because no one

suddenly said, "Wow, it's a big responsibility after all,

because inclusion does hurt and it moves many ethical, emotional,

personal things, but the responsibility that comes with it after we had an

intervention, after a certain change was achieved, not 100% but the change is

happening to the extent that it's being projected throughout the community. Belizario school is at the beginning

of the municipality, and I am the last school in the municipality, so

projection that is being given there It is important but it is also of great responsibility and well I am delighted to

continue participating in this project because truly everything I learned in Belizario and with my colleagues is

there carrying the project I am carrying it out on the other side of the other

school so Thank you very much for your attention and that was what I wanted to say my participation that being

cooperative responsible and empathetic should should help us in the end

indeed inclusion is far below what we would like everyone to understand or

know at least what reference they have But it is not like that we still have a lot of work to do but we are already

moving forward little by little until participation Thank you very much thank you for joining and for

participar y nada seguir disfrutando de esa fiesta y vamos con con Cruz que le

hemos dejado con la palabra en la boca Lo siento Cruz nada sig nos contando

síguenos contando nada bueno que os decía que nosotros lo hicimos el viernes el viernes 15 y lo hicimos coincidir

bueno por otras actividades que hacemos en el centro y vimos que la familia no no participan mucho A veces lo hicimos

coincidir con el magosto del cole que se abrió a las familias para que bueno que pudieran venir más Y claro no fue una no

fue una actividad en concreto solamente para hacer esta este diagnóstico porque lo lo

hicimos coincidir con con actividades para ese día concreto Entonces a los al

alumnado sí que lo lo hicimos en la las aulas eh las preguntas sí que utilizamos

las preguntas que nos eh mandaste un modelo y después con las familias

utilizamos la balar que es una herramienta que tenemos aquí en la junta de Galicia para comunicarnos con las familias y se la mandamos previamente

para que ellos al llegar ese día las familias que se que vinieron pudieran ya tener bueno estar un poquito saber un

poquito de qué iba el tema y que pudieran tener ya una ayuda previa para poder contestar eh las familias nos

apuntaron sobre 70 familias Pero bueno por las que yo estu así bastante por

fuera mirando lo que iban cubriendo no no la participación o sea escrito

presencial sí que vino gente pero escribiendo No No fue mucha Eh no se no

se a ver cómo os diría no s es que me sale la palabra como que no

if we don't elaborate, they didn't want to express their opinions, and the people

who did, well, they are people who might have children with needs and

it was their particular vision, not the general vision of the school, and we lack

a bit of the sharing session, we ran out of time and yes

we talked about having another day, that is, needing the families to be able to

carry out that sharing session, so we have all the answers from the posters. We divided the posters by

colors. We had the different banners in each of the two courtyards, and

we categorized the different answers by color, but now we lack the sharing session to analyze all of them.

responses AND especially with families and well I don't know if Javi wants my

I'll eat that's around if he wants to add anything else, uh, nothing, well, first of all, thank you, Cruz

Cruz did the work of half the faculty, and for us this is very special

we haven't reached the starting point yet, uh, what I see and it's normal, we come from that, for example, as a

comment in that situation, a moment of, of pinchos, tapas, snacks, and the parents

were, uh, in the dining room, the teachers with the door closed in the

teachers, that fact in itself is not for those of us who have already experienced, uh, a multitude of situations like this, that situation is not

bad, it's indicative of where we come from, from a classic traditional education where and why do I have, uh

Necesito desconectar me decía una profesora eh nosotros no trabajamos 8 horas al día ni 40 a la semana

justamente la participación es comprender esta situación desde otro punto de vista es un placer tomar un

café con una señora con una madre abuela padre que no puede venir mucho o con

alguien que viene más pero no siempre tienes ese momento eh eh acabo ya ya sé

que hay más gente pero lo que me preocupa a mí es la lectura que hacemos de esa situación Yo creo que es bueno

que estemos eh entenderme obviamente no es lo ideal No pues los los padres en el

comedor y el profesorado no es lo ideal pero si ocurre es bueno verlo lo que me

lo que me preocupa a mí y es algo que llevo eh mucho tiempo viendo es esa actitud de de

occurs in other fields if you have worked in or experienced situations of xenophobia or racism are

those classic excuse structures of Oh it was unintentional, time will

demonstrate it. We lack a lot of evaluation. Evaluation, sorry, evaluation is in Galician, and we

see it as something personal, and for example, the mere fact of talking about this elicits responses from some of the

teaching staff, like, but I am inclusive. Of course, everyone is good, everyone is great. We are talking

about where we want to go. And for that, the driving force is us. Adding to

what you were saying about emotion, no education inspector is going to fix this. They will help us, they will

remind us of the legislative framework, but it is us, and it is difficult for us. A month ago and

we just had a vote to uh open an activity for teachers uh from 15 16

in the first vote we voted I think it was four or five correct me Cruz in the second only Cruz and I and everyone

it has its because it's a lot of work It's just that I've worked in other contexts

in other communities and and it's something that we need to improve I repeat not

it's bad to be there what we need is to look in the mirror recognize that it's not talking bad about me if

I say Jo then I can improve this How about next time we talk about it I'm Cruc How about next time we dedicate

a little more time to mixing How can we have coffee in one room for parents and in another That's the idea

I repeat evaluation is not lacking otherwise I thought it was a great idea I had to do it with second grade it's a real

regalo comentarios de algunas madres otro y de algun algunos profes y creo que alguna compañera lo dijo e

eh nos falta por lo menos en en nuestra zona en nuestro centro abrir irnos al

profesorado entender que es es riqueza que que que no que no es que da igual es que es super enriquecedor eh

nos falta esa Barrera aún y Bueno en eso estamos o sea mi lectura es positiva eh pero Uf Así que yo también tono me da

culpa porque no he podido ayudar a cruz en materias de en el ámbito organizativo

y estuvo muy bien nos falta ese punto de debate posterior y como referencia eso

evaluarnos y y ver hacia donde si esto todo es un paripé permitidme la palabra

para cumplir con un programa que estamos haciendo con otros coles de una red tal red de exclusión algo que me di no vale

para nada tenemos que empezar por lo más importante por por los valores éticos que están relacionados con con los

principios de la escuela y luego viene tecnología gamificación y ahí estamos

Perdón por explayarme también pero la lectura es positiva eh pero que este es el camino muchísimas Gracias Xavi y Cruz

por transmitir esa positividad no Y la importancia de ir pensando Cómo construir esos espacios de convivencia

que también decía Cristina no solo entre alumnado sino entre profesorados

familias y tal porque bueno es a partir de ahí donde se va construyendo no son

fundamentales no sé si ya para terminar estaba la compañera que se había vuelto

a conectar tú la ves por ahí Nacho no no la veo No sí Ah sí s sí la

estoy viendo Araceli venga Araceli pues cuéntanos tu experiencia y ya pasamos y

dejamos a Mariana que estará por ahí cuéntanos tu experiencia Sí sí se te escucha eh Araceli Acércate al

micrófono vale Bueno pues nada rápidamente eh nuestro Cole es un Cole

de Santander el Manuel lano entonces eh lo hicimos la la investigación la hemos

hecho por parte separadas por un lado con el alumnado en la hora de tutoría que tenemos los viernes por otro lado

con las familias con una encuesta y una urna que pusimos en el cole para que pusieran sus ideas y con el profesorado

En las reuniones de ciclo que hemos tenido ayer entonces Bueno un poco

recogiendo todo eh lo que hemos visto es por un lado que que se valora muy positivamente todo lo

que se hace de participación de las familias de mezcla de alumnado

internivel de bueno todo esto que hacemos tutorías compartidas apin un

lector recreos activos todo esto y en lo que vemos que podemos seguir caminando y

mejorando y que ha surgido sobre todo de parte de del alumnado es el

acompañamiento al alumnado vulnerable por la razón que sea entonces vemos que

igual podemos seguir trabajando en esa línea en algo que tenga que ver con

establecer alguna estructura que que ayude que que que los alumnos y las

alumnas se cuiden unos a otros en los diferentes espacios entonces bueno Esta

es nuestra idea nada más así breve Muchísimas gracias Araceli Nacho

había levantado la mano no sé si querías comentar algo Antes de dar paso a Mari Sí yo solo quería hacer un comentario

muy breve eh lo primero felicitar por esta maravilla que acabamos de de

presenciar aquí de todas las experiencias que habéis estado desarrollando que muchos de vosotros y vosotras sois

muy críticos Pero qué maravilla Escuchar lo que está pasando eso es lo primero

felicito y lo segundo que quería comentar

es que el diagnóstico no es más que una oportunidad para

conversar es el el primer paso para comenzar una conversación que no acaba

it is a conversation among the entire community so of course we have divided

right now by sectors, Chavi said, okay, we are separated, the desirable thing is to come together, well,

that's what the following steps are for, okay? The idea is, it's important that the children and

girls can speak without other people's voices over them. In fact, someone was talking earlier about

linking or mixing with politicians, families, for example. It's dangerous initially, not later, but

initially, yes, it's dangerous. Why? Because politicians know how to monopolize the discourse, and families don't have that

capacity developed. So it's important that, just as we professionals

tend to monopolize the discourse because we are trained in that, it is

it is important that there are spaces where people can develop their own voice and again this is just a conversation

that has been initiated among the entire community and that the participatory action research process will

continue to encourage in the following steps well Congratulations I join Nacho's

Congratulations and continue encouraging us to keep maintaining that

conversation we have started now what needs to continue is maintaining it well thank you very much everyone

for sharing your very very valuable experience you will be reading the comments there in the

chat that are coming in congratulating all the colleagues and I think it has also served as an incentive for the

centers that have not yet developed it to encourage them to carry it out well and now

The next item on our agenda, as Nacho was saying, is the task

that we have for a more relaxed one, okay? You can relax for the next session, which

Mariana will explain, and it has to do with the formation of that participatory action research group

within your center. Thank you very much, Mariana. She must be around, right, Mariana?

Excuse me, quite the opposite. Well, I'm very happy, very happy to greet you all.

It's a real pleasure, as Nacho and Tere said, to hear the

experiences you've shared from the very beginning, from when we first talked about the workshop to this moment

when you've started sharing the diagnosis you've carried out in your centers.

y Y bueno pues como habéis dicho muchos compañeros e el

proceso que se inicia de de la investigación acción participativa eh es un proceso que que está causando

mucha emoción y muchas sensaciones no que nos ayudan a sentirnos participe y a

y a promover en este grupo tan maravilloso esa inclusión educativa no por la que estamos todos

aquí el siguiente paso ya ha iniciado Nacho el sentido que

tiene cuando ha dicho que que hemos empezado a conversar en los centros pero

que es un inicio que est esto continúa no eh Por eso la el siguiente paso es un

paso especialmente bonito Eh muy muy bonito porque eh Vais a constituir en vuestros centros

what we call the participatory action research steering group and that

group needs to be constituted with delicacy with

care with because it will include representatives from the entire

educational community students teaching staff management team

families administrative and service staff different

agents from the community with whom we have been working who wish to join

member associations of not from the city council from different instances also political cultural centers

sports also university professors if possible or a professional who is

familiar with participatory methodologies and it is a group

especially diverse as we have seen those of us who have had the

opportunity to participate in a steering group we have learned the importance

of all sectors being represented

and as Nacho and Tere say a lot no each voice is worth the same as another

regardless of age position in the school level of

studies you say today is World Children's Day no November 20th

and I think if I had to say something I have learned by being part of a

the steering group would say that the voices of the students, for me,

have helped me a lot to learn and understand what that process means

to build a more inclusive school. It is a stable group that will work

throughout the entire cycle of participatory action research (PAR) and will meet periodically.

and that will work collaboratively, as we are doing here. It has been a process to see

how you congratulate each other, how we learn from the different

experiences, you make us participants, the images... all of that will be experienced in

that group. It is a real experience.

especialmente relevante no como decía lo decía antes Jesús y lo habéis dicho

muchos de vosotros no el mismo proceso en sí tiene que ser inclusivo poro tanto el grupo motor es

un espacio que tiene que construirse poco a poco eh siempre en proceso de ser

cada día más inclusivo no problemas surgirán mucho eh falta de participación también lo

puede contar el ceil Parra pero ahora no tenemos el tiempo pero sí ahí claro lo lógico es que

cueste mucho trabajo que el alumnado empiece que la familia por supuesto decir que no que es fácil no No es fácil

pero merece la pena y como los que estamos aquí

trabajamos por lo que verdaderamente merece la pena pues vamos a poneros mano a la obra no lo vamos a intentar bueno

Therefore it is a group that requires commitment and must participate

throughout the entire cycle it may be interesting to create

a kind of timeline of the different sessions because whoever participates in this group will need to know

Hey, you ask, right? Hey, how much time will this take me?

once a month, every 15 days. That is, it is necessary to know what

we are committing to, which is why we recommend that you do a bit of planning and scheduling. And above

all, when you start working, make sure the dynamics are as participatory and active as this session has been.

For the next December 11th

es la próxima sesión que tenemos esa sería la tarea a realizar y

vamos a compartir una ficha para facilitaros esa tarea la Constitución la tarea es la

constitución del grupo motor de investigación acción participativa eh la tenéis la comparto en un segundo y la

tenéis ya en la plataforma decidimos tenemos un equipazo que

prepara la plataforma continuamente y veis que debajo de la

ficha de diagnóstico está la ficha del grupo de investigación acción participativa muy muy sencilla la

comento de forma muy breve nombre de vuestro centro siempre fundamental lugar

eh eh municipio ciudad país y os pedimos que anoté simplemente el nombre no neces

no apellido ni nada No simplemente el nombre del alumnado que va a participar las familias también los datos de la

familia profesorado equipo directivo otro personal del centro y agentes del entorno esa sería la tarea que os

proponemos para realizar eh de Cara a la próxima antes de la próxima sesión que

será el 11 de diciembre Así que si tenéis alguna cuestión que plantearnos y

si no pues animaros a a crear ese grupo motor porque va a ser un grupo

espectacular y bueno viendo el panorama de estos centros sabemos que el 11 de diciembre encontramos unos grupos

espectaculares seguro alguna cuestión algunas eh

rafela yo esta mañana a Isabel bueno no pasa nada que

this morning I got carried away I saw the form and I edited it I know it's bad because I didn't put

names I put numbers thinking that the group was the one from yesterday the people who participated yesterday so and it's that

yes it gave me a warning when I sent it that it couldn't be edited afterwards so now what do I do

because I have it wrong Well we'll look at that and and

we try to delete it whenever the platform allows it we always leave a trace because what it aims for is to be

very transparent but it will surely be possible to delete it even if the record remains

but I think it can be deleted no problem okay Yes no problem Isabel Thank you very much Rafaela whenever you want Yes

I was only related to the number of students participating whether it is representative or one per level

or I don't know, the same as the teaching staff, let's see the steering group

uh it's a group that goes, uh, a bit to coordinate, right? and to facilitate, uh, they are

facilitators of participatory action research, but really, the ones who research and carry out the entire process are

the entire community, okay? The only thing is that to guarantee that there is a bit, right? Well,

that facilitation of, of the analysis of, of all the phases that we are going to

carry out later, we have a small representation from each sector

that, uh, I wouldn't put a specific number, but it should be as balanced as

as heterogeneous as possible and, and above all, that it has an adequate number to

that there can be dialogue and participation because Of course, if not, if there are 50 or 100

people, then it's impossible. So I think you will do that better than anyone else, knowing who

you can count on, which students, and how you can work best within that group. The only thing

is, sorry, the issue is that even if it's small, the issue is

it's about finding spaces and times because all the schedules are already set, and finding moments for teachers to coincide with

the students and the families. That will be a bit of a handicap, but well, it can be done, it can be

attempted. Yes, I'm sure you'll manage to align

the schedules a bit. It's true that in the end, it's about aligning schedules and so on, but but

seguro que buscáis algún hueco y bueno que reuniones que sean concretas Que

tengan un poco su organización y no saturar no yo creo que eso es una

recomendación también muy importante no no saturar las agendas y que fluya de la

manera más eh más fácil No yo decirte Rafaela que que una vez que empieza a participar

en el hiad no se pierde una reunión o sea es es un grupo humano tan importante

que que no nos perdemos las reuniones siempre hay hueco para ello y

Nacho a ver yo en relación con lo que está planteando Vicky en el en el chat y

creo que es una preocupación cómo se conforma ese grupo motor yo creo que lo principal es entender para qué es ese no

it is the steering group, it is not the leader, it is just a group of people who will

as Mariana was saying, to mobilize the rest of the people. So,

keeping this in mind, as Mariana said, it's not that this is the group that participates and the rest don't, but rather that this is

the group that facilitates, it's a motor, not the car, the motor moves the car, but

it's the car that moves. So, that's what it's about. It's like a small group of

people who have people from all sectors of the community

helping the whole community get moving. So, for example, if we think about what task will

be ahead of us, the first will be to analyze what was said at that conference on

diagnosis So if there are students there are families there are professionals there are

management teams there are external agents who start thinking about what the community has said, then

the analysis will be more powerful than if only a group of three does it

teachers, so it has to be, as Mariana said, an operational group, it cannot be

a huge group. Vicky says, we have a lot of demand from students who want to do, well,

great, so that demand from young people, let's make it

for example, into commissions, but not the steering group, because the steering group has to be something operational that can

meet quickly, that can, uh, make some quick decisions to move the rest forward

for example that steering group can perhaps delegate tasks to some of those

commissions invented commissions there is no single way of of commission you can think of many commissions

there can be in schools you already have many commissions in fact now think of some some that have

to be about how do we make sure everyone feels comfortable for example within that commission on coexistence is a

very important commission commissions is that you will have much more creativity than

us because you are on the ground and you know what possibilities there are but what I mean is that it has to be

something very operational for example a group of 20

people well a steering group is already quite strong V uh If in in those 20 people

particularmente hay estudiantes más fuerte va a ser porque los estudiantes tienen una voz que nos

ayuda a sobre todo a Los profesionales de la familia a pensar más allá de nuestros Marcos Entonces yo lo dejaría

por ahí Creo que libertad como decía Mariana para diseñar vuestros propios

grupos motor pero pensad que ese grupo motor va a organizar ahora la información que ha dado la comunidad y

después se la va a devolver de nuevo a la comunidad O sea que de nuevo será la comunidad quien tome

decisiones hay alguna otra palabra bueno en el chat yo creo que se ha ido también

haciendo comentarios no al respecto y y bueno Vicky también eso el análisis no

lo hace en efecto no grupo motor la función fundamental es esa no facilitar animar motivar y y y

sigue haciendo la investigación acción pues toda la comunidad no que eso esa es la investigación acción participativa

Bueno animaros a que para el 11 de diciembre tengamos esos grupos constituidos no sería un regalillo de

Navidad fantástico Mira Marcel levantar la mano Marcelino cuéntanos sí Hola Mira a

ver yo os cuento porque Yo realmente estoy en el en el grupo del instituto

como padre es mu es muy paradójico todo esto porque yo soy docente pero en el grupo del instituto que no es mi

instituto como padre eh Y yo me doy cuenta de que con todo esto que estáis diciendo

eh Hay una un problema que ha surgido justo en mi instituto esta mañana donde yo llevo la inclusión de unos chicos que

están siempre olvidados que son los chicos que ahora en Canarias tenemos este gran problema no somos el único el

only the only region But there are other regions that will also have it more and more, which is the the issue of the

so-called, which I don't like the name for due to the negative connotations given to them, of the "MENA" children (minors without family in Spain)

so of course, right now we have about twenty-something students in a school, uh, and there are, I know there are

schools that have up to 50% of these children, so of course, this is a challenge for inclusion, it's another challenge for

inclusion. Uh, when I, I have a, it's just that I have two struggles because I've had

struggles as a parent and now I have struggles as a teacher on two different fronts, and it's an impressive thing

how to say, well, since they don't know, since they don't understand, we give them worksheets and they can just stay there, and so, uh,

well, today I achieved my first victory as a teacher with these children because I managed to gather in the

biblioteca a los docentes que realmente estaban interesados en que esos chicos en sus aulas ordinarias y no solo en

apoyo idiomático o yo que sé en biología en matemática eh pudieran integrarse en

el aula y yo pensé que iba a estar solo y después de todas las batallas y de

todas las peleas y de mostado con 20 compañeros en la en la biblioteca esta

mañana que yo había convocado no y ha sido maravilloso porque de pronto a mí se me ha ocurrido la palabra democrático

Y entonces esto que vosotros estáis diciendo del grupo dinamizador es que yo lo comentaba Ah en el chat pero me

parecía interesante tomar la palabra no eh tenemos la mala cultura no sé si en

este país en otros también probablemente pero en este país particularmente de que quien dinamiza quien dirige es el que

manda y eso no es así es decir el que dirige es el que como decías tú Nacho es

el motor pero el motor dirige no manda porque Que Manda manda todo el mundo al

mismo tiempo es decir mandan las ruedas Porque si la rueda se pincha da igual el motor es decir No importa eh Y entonces

esa es la cultura que nosotros Yo aquí estoy viendo hoy que yo creo que es lo que vosotros transmitís pero es que

somos Duros de pelar o sea es que hay algo como que dentro de nosotros dice no Pero quién va a llevar la voz cantante

es que no hay nadie que lleve la voz cantante es que hay como una orientación hacia ahí no Y esto es lo más bonito y lo más

interesante lo he tenido esta mañana por fin después de de dos meses de lucha en mi centro y y bueno lo vamos a tener

también en el batán como padre y como estoy ahí hablando con la directora y es muy bonito escucharos a vosotros decir

esto no no cuidado el grupo dinamizador no es el que manda esta es la idea la

democracia interna no y yo creo que es por ahí por donde vamos Muchas gracias Marcelino por

compartir la experiencia Gina Paula y yo creo que ya cerramos las palabras para

ir finalizando parece por cumplir un poco el horario aunque no hemos un poco pero bueno Paula

cuando quieras Gracias Mariana qué placer qué

privilegio poder estar en esta hermosa experiencia he estado super receptiva a

la palabra de cada uno de los ponentes de las personas que han compartido su

experiencia soy colombiana soy orientadora escolar de profesión psicóloga y acompaño mi comunidad

educational, also with this perspective, embracing functional diversity and working very committedly for it

I want and I allow myself to respectfully request to be part of this

research because until today I know that you have advanced in a

diagnosis but if it is okay with you I could do it in the recent time and add the other

task so that by December 11th we are up to date with the group

if there is a possibility to participate and learn with you. Thank you for listening to me

of course Gina, we will be looking forward to hearing from you next

December 11th. We expect your contribution to that diagnosis. Thank you very much to you, Nacho. Whenever you want.

tomar Gracias mar Bueno pues nada cierro tú

Mariana con la alegría con la alegría del día

vaya Es que aquí los malagueños tenemos mucho arte lo sabéis o no Bueno cuando vengáis por fin ya os llevaremos por ahí

que nada que encantada eh Nacho téo Pues siempre es un

placer preparar junto con vosotros todas estas sesiones y nada lo dicho mucho

ánimo eh con el diagnóstico que tenéis por delante y sobre todo con la constitución del grupo de ese

maravilloso grupo que Vais a disfrutar muchísimo que vamos a disfrutar juntos y desearos pues eso que prontito nos vemos

el 11 de diciembre está aquí dentro de nada